The Gentlemen's Mafia II - Hunter's Chance

Im afraid you don't understand. The neutral killer, in those games, was neutral as they were a killer, but their win condition was the same as the rest of the town - 'you will win when the mafia has been eliminated'. The only reason they were neutral was because they were a killer.

 

 

 

It wasn't a mistake, it was the decision of the GM. This is what I mean - saying that it is ALWAYS the case that a win condition denotes an alignment is simply not the case. The GM can do whatever they like with a game - there are no rules about alignments, and if a GM decides to make a neutral killer with a town-like win condition, that's their choice. It's not a mistake.

 

And of course, I wouldn't have been referring to these examples if the alignment had appeared wrongly during the game. At the end of the game, when a list of roles was posted, there was a neutral killer with a town-like win condition. I wish I could find the game to show you, but having played in around 30 or something, it's rather difficult.

 

I think the point is not whether we can trust the GM, but whether we can predict what they want to do with their game. The answer is that we cannot predict how a GM will organise his game, so assuming anything about alignments, or anything else, is foolish as it may certainly not be the case.

 

Anyway, as I said, we will find out tonight. If there is any messing about on your part I will take it as confirmation that you are evil :p

I do understand perfectly, I'm just saying it doesn't make sense to do it that way according to the game's original logic, since alignment originated as a simple term to determine whether someone was on the town's side or the mafia's side. To suddenly change that definition of alignment is to bring a whole new aspect into the game - much like some RPGs distinguishes between "lawful good" and "chaotic good", for instance.

All that being said, I completely agree that the GM can do what he wants with the game. I honestly couldn't care less what we're labelled as, I just wanted to underline the facts since some people were still confused.

This is the point at which it stops being logic and starts being you making shit up :p Sorry, but to me it is logical that a killer cannot be called good, no matter what his win condition is. If someone can kill, they are not good, and to me that is entirely logical, by the simple statement of killing = bad.

Not according to the original game logic, I'm afraid. It's not built on ethics, my friend! Lynching is killing, too, you know.

Haha, you two. You're both right.

Yeah, I know, but apparently we both love a good discussion, however pointless and fruitless it may be! :p

Do you mean the logic of the game 'mafia' as a general concept? Or this game's logic specifically? Because while I admit you're right about the general game, but as I have said, in previous games it hasn't been the case. Then again, the game has evolved so much from the 'vanilla' style game it started as, there is little point in saying that :p

Basically, all I'm saying is that while logically it may make sense for a killer to be classed as town, it is just as logical for them not to be. It depends on what logic you follow :p Saying either for sure is just not possible, as the GM can do what they want.

I think the best way to sum this up is as follows:

This discussion has been fun, but ultimately pointless. There is no certain answer to whether there would be a good killer, or whether the killer would be neutral. The best way to find out will be determined by what happens tonight

SO!

Tonight, Dazz is the person who most needs to be protected. I know there have been a couple of protectors who have come out, so if one of you could protect him that would be good. If the other wouldn't mind protecting me I would really appreciate it (only because having entirely revealed myself I am now coming out to help the town, rather than hiding in my room and setting traps, so I'm clearly on your side), but as I say, Dazz is a priority. Depending on his result tonight we may confirm 3 players as good (and me as neutral) OR prove that Dazz is not as useful as we thought, and that we shouldn't trust his investigations.

It's going to be an interesting/exciting night....

I think that Nintendohnut and Dannyboy should target each other. Would be interesting.

Do you mean the logic of the game 'mafia' as a general concept? Or this game's logic specifically? Because while I admit you're right about the general game, but as I have said, in previous games it hasn't been the case. Then again, the game has evolved so much from the 'vanilla' style game it started as, there is little point in saying that :p

 

Basically, all I'm saying is that while logically it may make sense for a killer to be classed as town, it is just as logical for them not to be. It depends on what logic you follow :p Saying either for sure is just not possible, as the GM can do what they want.

 

I think the best way to sum this up is as follows:

 

This discussion has been fun, but ultimately pointless. There is no certain answer to whether there would be a good killer, or whether the killer would be neutral. The best way to find out will be determined by what happens tonight

 

 

SO!

 

Tonight, Dazz is the person who most needs to be protected. I know there have been a couple of protectors who have come out, so if one of you could protect him that would be good. If the other wouldn't mind protecting me I would really appreciate it (only because having entirely revealed myself I am now coming out to help the town, rather than hiding in my room and setting traps, so I'm clearly on your side), but as I say, Dazz is a priority. Depending on his result tonight we may confirm 3 players as good (and me as neutral) OR prove that Dazz is not as useful as we thought, and that we shouldn't trust his investigations.

 

It's going to be an interesting/exciting night....

I meant the logic of the game in general, and since all our mafia games are based on the basic principles of mafia, I did indeed consider those principles to extend to this. However, having had our discussion, I do indeed see your point that we can't actually know for sure*. So it hasn't been entirely pointless! :p

*Except for the fact that my role PM says I'm good and can kill.

But yes, it shall indeed be an interesting night! Though I do fear intereference from the mafia.

Interference from mafia is a given but with our trackers and protectors I'd be surprised if we didn't catch them interfering.

Interference from mafia is a given but with our trackers and protectors I'd be surprised if we didn't catch them interfering.

I hope so.

I'm hoping that we have another hidden protector that hasn't revealed themselves yet. If there is, a little protection my way would be a massive help.

In regards to Flink, I don't need to reveal my role.

 

 

Do we at least know what you've been doing throughout this game? I can't recall seeing you appear in the write-up or seeing anybody mention you, except Dazz's post "confirming" you're good.

Vote Standings

Dyson (1): Cube

Nintendohnut (4): The Peeps, Ellmeister, Esequiel, Zell

No Lynch (1): Dyson

Diageo (1): ReZourceman

Artichokeman (1): Diageo

Majority is 12

-----------------

"Vigilantes such as myself can be good-natured!"

"Nay, killers are neutral and selfish at best and fiendishly evil at worst. It is in their...our nature!"

"Good!"

"Neutral!"

"Articho-"

"When doth this day end!?" asked Cube, exasperated with the discussion

"Worry not, the day will end early" said Jonnas "However...Sproutington!"

Sprout suddenly spoke "I cannot continue wearing this mask any longer, I'm afraid. If I am allowed, I would like to switch to the deceased Eenuh's mask. Personal problems of availability, you see."

Sprout has left the game, and asked to be replaced by Eenuh, on the condition that she reveals rigorously nothing about her previous role.

Sorry, mr-paul, I swear I did not forget you.

Also, a new regulation has been added to the first post, regarding good conduct with these replacements.

-----------------

Remaining Players

aqui1a

chairdriver

Cube

Dannyboy

Dazz

Diageo

Dyson

EddieColeslaw

Eenuh

Ellmeister

Esequiel

Flinky

Jayseven

MadDog

Marcamillian

Nintendohnut

ReZ

Rummy

Sméagol

Tales

The Peeps

Zell

There are 22 remaining players

Night 4 starts now

Automerge, this town ain't big enough for the both of us.

Night 4 has ended

--------------

	Audio

--------------

Despite the tranquil music, this was quite the busy night.

The usual speech was still there, however:

"Diageo, Diageo... You are a mysterious fellow. You are a fine performer, an excellent and versatile dancer, but your intentions and methods remain as mysterious as your poker face...

What kind of gentleman are you? How do you do the things you doooo...?"

"...I am unsure whether I was meant to sing that last part or not..." Jonnas confessed.

--------------

Remaining Players

aqui1a

chairdriver

Cube

Dannyboy

Dazz

Diageo

Dyson

EddieColeslaw

Ellmeister

Esequiel

Flinky

Jayseven

MadDog

Marcamillian

Nintendohnut

ReZ

Rummy

Sméagol

Sprout

Tales

The Peeps

Zell

There are 22 remaining players. Majority is 12.

Day 5 starts now

Ah, ToS music. I love you Jonnas!

Woah, just noticed that no one died. LOL

Implications towards Dannyboy or what. :p

Is the mafia that crafty, or was Dannyboy bluffing his pretty little ass off?

Well I targeted Fierce_Link last night and apparently held off 4 people. Nobody could reach him. Somebody had it in for Fierce_Link, it sounds way too much like a coincidence to have 4 people attack in one night.

Do you protect against every kind of targeting Dyson? Including kills, etc.

My role says "any player trying to target him" so I guess it means nobody can target them at all? Including, I presume, investigators and doctors and such. Hmm, may need to be a little careful with who I target after all..

Well I targeted Fierce_Link last night and apparently held off 4 people. Nobody could reach him. Somebody had it in for Fierce_Link, it sounds way too much like a coincidence to have 4 people attack in one night.

What da fuuuuck?!

Were they definitely trying to attack me? 4 of them? How come they didn't reach me? If I'm honest, I was expecting myself to be night-killed, so I'm happy to still be in the game.

They didn't reach you because I'm a protector

I would assume that there could have been a Janitor target you as well, which would hide the scene/kill from the writeup. But then again.. if they did then surely it wouldn't have worked due to my power?

Unsure. Odd that it didn't show up in the writeup.

Well I targeted Fierce_Link last night and apparently held off 4 people. Nobody could reach him. Somebody had it in for Fierce_Link, it sounds way too much like a coincidence to have 4 people attack in one night.

I was told you attacked with little provocation though.

I thought only the kill and his note showed up in the write up?

How do you know about this janitor business, is this common mafia game knowledge or current game knowledge?

They didn't reach you because I'm a protector

 

I would assume that there could have been a Janitor target you as well, which would hide the scene/kill from the writeup. But then again.. if they did then surely it wouldn't have worked due to my power?

 

Unsure. Odd that it didn't show up in the writeup.

In that case, mate, you are an absolute fucking star.

I live to fight another day!

I targeted Dazz to see if I'd get any confirmation on his power. I found that he attempts to learn of other people's alignment.

So what is our view on the no one dying scenario. Are we going after Dannyboy, for the current implication from the fact that he was protecting himself from Nintendohnut? Or do we think the mafia was protected against by Dyson and thus proving Dannyboy is not the killer. Or even that the mafia decided to tactically hold off from killing?

I am still unsure.

Who did you target last night Marcamillian?

So what is our view on the no one dying scenario. Are we going after Dannyboy, for the current implication from the fact that he was protecting himself from Nintendohnut? Or do we think the mafia was protected against by Dyson and thus proving Dannyboy is not the killer. Or even that the mafia decided to tactically hold off from killing?

 

I am still unsure.

 

Who did you target last night Marcamillian?

I think we need to wait for more info. From what it sounds like, the mafia did try to kill me, but couldn't because of Dyson? I think...

Dunno about the Nintendohnut and Dannyboy thing. Need to hear from them or others.

I'm one of the four who targeted Flink. Obviously didn't get through, was stopped by a violent man (Dyson), so backed off.

I thought only the kill and his note showed up in the write up?

 

How do you know about this janitor business, is this common mafia game knowledge or current game knowledge?

Been playing some alternative mafia games (quickfire games) and janitors show up quite often. It's just a theory, although there is no proof to suggest one is in this game.

I would have attacked with little provocation because I am a street brawler, Tales. And I guess that helps confirm my power, in that it stops everyone from targetting someone, not just kills.

So 1 person has admitted to targeting Flink so far... anyone else want to come forward?