The C-E staff give their views on gaming's most important issues.

Welcome to the one hundredth edition of our Staff Roundtable (ah, how the years have flown). For the past 99 editions we've discussed new games, the state of the consoles, things we like and dislike about games...today we tackle the most important question for Nintendo fans today. We love Nintendo, but over the last few years they've come under an increasing amount of flack. Many have doubted the great bastion of gaming, but are any of those people here?

Are Nintendo today as good as they used to be? And is there a place for them in the future?

Mark:

Are Nintendo as good as they used to be? Absolutely.

Nintendo's standards, despite the ever-increasing amount of games they make, are not slipping whatsoever. While Mario Sunshine and Zelda: Wind Waker are not generally recognized to be quite as good as their N64 counterparts (and that, too, is largely due to the fact that the aformentioned N64 games were in 3D for the first time), they represent the very best of their respective genres. People often forget that Nintendo now have three consoles with games in full-time development- soon to be four. Compare this with the 'old' days- just one 'main' home console to develop for, with maybe a few mono Game Boy games on the side. Nintendo's capacity has expanded, but it is their speed and increased productivity which has allowed them to move at such pace in the last few years. If you go back to the N64 era, Nintendo actually only released a suprsingly small handful of first-party games, with huge spaces of a year or longer between releases. That has changed.

Thanks to clever collaborations (Eternal Darkness, Metroid, Starfox, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy), and the close relationship with many Japanese developers like Treasure and Capcom, Nintendo have been able to release many more games than ever before, while still being capable of churning our sheer brilliance from the staple Mario & Zelda franchises.

Nintendo have upped their game of late, and this shouldn't go by unnoticed. And is there a place for Nintendo in the future?

If Nintendo continue to plough their own furrow, to go places where other companies wouldn't dare, to innovate, entertain, and amaze- then their fans won't ever leave them, and they'll gain many new ones along the way. And they are showing every sign of continuing this long tradition.

An emphatic yes, then.

pdhq64:

Are Nintendo today as good as they used to be?

Yes and no. No because, well, I just don't find their games as entertaining as I used to. (Zelda and Mario are both prime examples). On the other hand, yes because they're coming up with totally new ideas such as Zelda: Four Swords and Donkey Kong Jungle Beat. Also, they're adapting existing ideas to create games like Donkey Konga.

And is there a place for them in the future?

This all depends on Nintendo. There is certainly a place for them, but whether they'll take it remains to be seen. Gamers are calling out for DVD players in their consoles, and online gaming. Nintendo may say that both of these don't make a console, and to some extent they're right. The problem is, the people that agree with them are normally the hardcore or Nintendo fanboys.

This isn't a market Nintendo need to worry about capturing - sure, they need to keep us entertained, but they don't need to work on us as much. The market they really need to focus on is the casual gaming population. These, let's face it, have the most power in the gaming industry. If one console has fewer essential (in their eyes, anyway) features, it isn't as good.

Something like that anyway.

Javid:

Interesting one. I've been a solid Nintendo man from the start of the N64 days, so my opinion is based mainly on that period although I'm aware of past games, and I have to say I believe things are just as good. Nintendo themselves have kept solid with their key figures and introduced new ones along the way such as Pikmin and such not to mention making great games from other stars like Luigi and Wario. In terms of compared quality, I favour Mario Sunshine but then again favour the Zeldas on the N64 as opposed to the WW, purely taste though not a drop in quality I believe. Same with Mario Kart really.

Between these two eras though, I think Nintendo has been consistent with their impact and games, and all the while keeping things fresh. However, the N64 era clinches it for me because of Rares games; they were my favourite, they were almost a second Nintendo to me. It depends on the question though, because I believe Nintendo's performance, both handheld and console, has been consistently pleasing and innovative, which is what we've grown to expect. Maybe that expectation has somehow dillusioned some people to think things aren't as great which is ever so easy to do, even more so now there are two strong competitors in the industry.

If the question refers to all things Nintendo console related then it's varied; the Cube has the 3rd party support whereas the N64 had Rare. As for the past before the N64, I can't really say, I'm sure people will say that was the best time because it's standard thinking to do that and to prove you've been a fan so long, a self ego thing really, but from what I've played the SNES seems to be pretty awesome, as things are now so, in summary of all this, I say yes they are as good.

The future then, it's obviously getting a lot more heated; you have three established companies all having enormous impact on the gaming industry. It's hard to vision there being just one 'best' one out of them all. Nintendo though will always have its share I feel, you can't ignore their stars and brave constant efforts to keep things new and exciting, ala the DS. As always, people don't like change and new things so thats reason for some eyebrow raising and uncertainty, but can you honestly imagine a games industry without Mario? Come on it just won't happen! Bring on the Revolution and long live Nintendo I say!

James:

I've owned every single Nintendo home system released in the UK. Every time, Nintendo have surprised me with their constant innovation and always being able to add a new element to gameplay which hasn't been done before.

The GameCube and N64 consoles, specifically, are examples of this. Between the two, we've seen true 3D games for the first time, four controllers instead of two, and the rumble function in controllers - to name but three innovations thought up by Nintendo. This, coupled with truly monumental games such as Goldeneye, Mario 64, and later Metroid Prime and The Wind Waker, prove that Nintendo still have what it takes to make a great game.

But that isn't the main reason I love Nintendo. Recently, I purchased Super Mario Bros. for the GBA, the port of the NES classic, the beginning of what became the most popular gaming franchise ever. To play it was an experience of what I can only describe as pure joy - nostaligia combined with a fantastic, monumental game that was still extremely playable after almost twenty years. I suppose the reason that I love Nintendo is that a good game is a good game forever - and not only has this been proven with the excellent Super Mario Bros., which I still play, but I know that I can come back to the Wind Waker or Mario Kart: Double Dash!! in five or ten years, and find them as enjoyable as I ever did.

Innovation, playability, entertainment. These three words characterise Nintendo for me. From Super Mario Bros. to Super Mario Sunshine, Nintendo have raised the bar in all three of those categories, and set an example for other developers to follow. Here's to another twenty years of Nintendo!

Iun:

Nintendo games are still as good as they ever were, they've just lost the impact that they once had.

Much of this is thanks to the transition from 2D to 3D having been done on last generations hardware. For example, Mario 64 and Ocarina of Tiem were mind blowing becasue they took the popular franchises into a completely new direction which refreshed them somewhat.

Then there's this generation: what's left? We've done 2D, moved onto 3D, mwhere do we go from here? Remember the disappointment surrounding the Wind Waker And Sunshine? Arguably two of the finest games of recent years, but they just weren't the leap that everyone had hoped, they were a continuation of ideas.

Dennis:

No.

They're better! I admit that titles like Metroid, Zelda and Super Mario Bros. originate from the early days of the Nintendo reign, but even though these games are ultimate classics (and still very playable), their successors are far better.

For example, take Super Mario Bros. The game was great! You could jump, move, eat toadstools, throw fire. You could even step on a turtle and use its shell to defeat other enemies! However, Mario 64 came along, and I'm dying for another game like that.

The same story goes for Zelda. The original Legend of Zelda (recently re-purchased it in the Classic NES series on GBA) was nice. Loads of items, a nice storyline, the lot! However, games like Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker and the upcoming Minish Cap are far better in my opinion. Not only because of their looks, but the story and characters are more 'lively'.

Apart from continuing on old titles, Nintendo also proved themselves worthy by introducing new titles and game-types. Take Metroid Prime for example. Who would've ever thought of turning a game like Metroid into a First Person Shooter? (don't start about Duke Nukem, that one didn't work out this swell) Or take Advance Wars (the GBA versions), Wario Ware, Donkey Konga, etcetera etcetera.

Nintendo started with 'good', continued with 'better' and will soon reach 'GREAT'. And with Nintendo up for the next 20 years, so will the C-E Roundtable!

Ben:

If you'd have asked me this question pre-E3, I'd have been tempted to say "no". A dissapointing E3 2003- Link cable! Yay!- and the lack of magic in a couple of notable franchises left me feeling a little down with the direction that Nintendo were going in.

E3 2004 wiped those thoughts straight out of my mind. Nintendo still have it. The Nintendo DS rode in on the back of a white tiger in a blazing ball of fire and stole the show. A gimmick they said. Try touch control. Try "no-line". E3 2004 and Reggie's one-man invasion of Los Angeles showed the haters what they're all about- innovation- something which is captured in the glorious NDS.

A dual-screened Game Boy would have failed to impress- but voice and touch control, wireless LAN and Mario Kart DS certainly did not. When Reggie pulled the dual-screened wonderbeast out of his rather snazzy jacket, I had that same shiver down my spine which engulfed me when I raced those adorable penguins on Super Mario 64. I was experiencing something new, something fresh- and as Iwata-San was keen to demonstrate, something different.

I'm sure every fan admits they'd love to see 'tendo do well in the market- but we're seeing Nintendo return to their roots, forgetting about the competition and what's trendy- and delivering an innovative well-round fresh gaming experience.

And quite frankly that is what Nintendo are about. They may have lost a grip of the market, but they haven't lost their golden touch.

And don't start me on Zelda.

Pesten:

Are Nintendo today as good as they used to be? That's easy. Yes.

In the days of NES and SNES, Nintendo didn't really have such bad assed competitors as now. I beleave that made them slack off a bit. Of course, there was lots of excellent games back then too. Super Mario Bros. 3 anyone? (that was the game that truly took me into gaming along with Zelda II: Adventures of Link.) But there was some crappy titles too. And I believe that the "sign of quality" wasn't that much respected when it came to spit out another game into the shelves. Later on this little machine by Sony came kicking ass and taking names and Nintendo was somehow left in the shadows only looked after by the trusty ol' fans, and some new ones who discovered the magic.

Because that is to me exactly what Nintendo is all about. That tickling feeling deep down in your stomach. And the sheer satisfaction while playing one of their games. It's the Nintendo magic we all know. And this magic has, in my opinion, not disappeared at all. I loved WW to the bits. And Super Mario Sunshine was a joy! And to me they were all what their N64 counterparts was and more. No maybe not as revolutionary as OOT and SM64 but still. Remember SMB3 and how good that was? It wasn't much new from the original but still better in any aspect in my opinion.

As long as Nintendo don't let them be pushed by the competitors they will always have their own place. As the innovators. The entertainers, and the wise one in the gaming industry. Nintendo have by all means made the gaming world we know. And deserves the respect such a feat gives.

Did that make any sense at all? ..

Ash:

Nintendo may be "as good as they used to be" but that's too vague really. Nintendo are still creating great quality games but the general opinion of them has changed, thus changing our idea of their quality as a company and games creator. During the days of the NES Nintendo seemed to be the big company who could do no wrong but now people have become more critical of them but not much has changed from them. Sony may be selling a lot and interesting other types of gamers but Nintendo have not changed, they have stuck their ground so in theory they are as good as they used to be.

Nintendo will remain in the games industry, and forever synonymous with it as well. They may not be the power house they were but people over exaggerate their status on financial success in the industry. Yes, they may be getting some seemingly tough competition in the handheld market but it doesn't mean they're going to end up sat on the streets begging for change any time soon.

Tim:

I think Nintendo are definitely as good as they used to be! They keep revolutionizing the games industry with their new devices, software, etc. The only problem is that the Sony and Microsoft products attract a bigger audience because consumers know what to expect and are sometimes afraid of diving into buying cool innovative products that they don't see on television all the time, or is not owned by many of their friends. These consumers may choose the mainstream way over the Nintendo way. This, however, does not mean Nintendo are doing less of a job. In fact, I appreciate Nintendo for staying true and not follow the mainstream by becoming just another console. When buying a GameCube, GBA or DS you know you will be getting different content than with the other formats. I don't think less of Nintendo... the contrary!

Regarding the future, I think there are enough people interested in innovative product to keep Nintendo alive. The Pokémon craze will also help boosting profits. Keep kicking Nintendo, some day everybody will recognise the beauty in your products.

Conor:

Well, that's the $64,000 question, isn't it? And it's also a pretty darn difficult one to answer.

If we're just talking about overall game quality, I'd probably have to say no. Honestly, comparing Mario Sunshine and Zelda: Wind Waker to their respective predecessors just shines light on how inferior the current editions are. WW, with its long, idle sailing and generous difficulty and Sunshine, with its repetitive shine objectives and irritating blue coin collecting. There is no competition between them and say, Majora's Mask and Super Mario Land. Similar criticisms can be made about Double Dash, which was disappointly dumbed down by the time it arrived. Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin were too short. The answer surely seems obvious. Except it isn't near that simple.

I do believe Nintendo themselves are as talented as they ever were, it's just they've been compromising game quality. Both Sunshine and Wind Waker were rushed, while LM and Pikmin were never given enough breadth to grow. There were times when the magic shown through: the breathtaking animation in WW; those wonderful secret areas in Sunshine; the sheer playability of LM and the immense fun in Pikmin.

Luckily there are signs Nintendo are going back to their former selves, the most notable being the wonderful DS. Talk about pushing boundaries. It's Nintendo playing by their own rules, and shows why there will always be a place for them in the industry. Even when they seem to be doing everything wrong, they can still knock 'em out of the park.

So what do our readers think? Are Nintendo still up to the task? And be honest...