We were having some problems with the Roundtable last week, but we've two to make up for it. And they're pretty good you know! This is our first, where we pose an intruiging question...are games just a way to waste spare time, or are they something more?

Games - art, entertainment, or both?

Ash: I think games are both art and entertainment. Especially the more modern games.

If you look at recent games they show a state of high quality art, but are also similar to the art world. You have the fine-art type which include any realistic games, such as Soul Calibur 2, Metroid Prime etc and the pop art style, such as The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker and Jet Set Radio. We all interpret art differently like we can all intrepret games differently. More and more companies are putting money into their art departments to get the best they can from the visual department. Then of course theres the meaning of art, and games have become an art form itself. Many people are trying to do it but only the best are any good at it and these are the people who sell the best. It has different techniques and styles to it that make it an art form.

Games are also entertainment, they, to put it simply, entertain. The best games are the ones that enthusiastic towards the game, they are the ones with the best storylines etc. You want to carry on playing to get more out of it so it is entertaining you. And of course, you play it for fun, can be for a long period of time or for a short time, videogames have become like TV or music, something we do in our spare time. And to the computer game companies I say, "Here we are now, entertain us!"

The Enigma: Well the current forage of games don't fit in to either of those categories. Neither artistic nor entertaining, the latest batch of monotonous remakes and countless simulations make for some dire times in the world of gaming. But behold! Out of the darkness shines a light, and that light is Nintendo. Wind Waker, Prime, Mario Kart GCN, 1080 Avalanche, F-Zero GCN and many exclusive third party titles such as the upcoming Metal Gear Solid game, Unity, Crystal Chronicles and THOSE Capcom games, and the meaning of Art+Entertainment=fun is apparent!!!

Of course, the Playstation and X-Box will have their moments (thanks in no small part to RARE, Square and Bungie), but, in all truth, Nintendo's where it's at.

Link: Games are definitely both. They are entertainment for obvious reasons, but art is a bit more complex. I have to say that not all games are art, though, as some games just are crap. Games like Zelda or Final Fantasy, though, just have points of beauty where you just can't help but be amazed. These games are masterpieces and like any other art should be explored to discover everything that they hold.

Master Tim: I think that if a game really gives the gamer entertainment it must be in relation with Art. If a game is utterly artless I think the game immediately looses on the entertainment side of things. Making a vidoegame definately is the same as making an artwork. Thinking of an orginal idea and then bringing it to live is a process which is solely driven on creativity and soul. So I vote for both!

Blackbird: Games are meant for entertainment. Play a game, have some fun (or: don't have fun when your losing). However, some gamers are pretending they've upgraded gaming to an art. look at the people who play FPS online a lot. What I mean is, surely they can fire with great accuracy. Sure, their responsiveness seems waaaay beyond my limits, but that doesn't make something an art.

Art is something which was made to express the creators feelings, to supply the world with his (or her) view of the world. Whether it's a positive, or a negative view: that doesn't matter.

Creating a game can be a real pest. Something just won't work, it's just not like it's supposed to be, or simply because the machine isn't as powerful as should be. All these factors are expressed in the authors work. Do you feel it coming already? It's the developer creating the art, NOT the gamer.

So games can't be divided into 1 category. The two belong together, yet they are split up by a gap creating by the difference between the originator and the gamer.

Phuzzy: I'd like to think that games are as much a part of art and design as paintings are; though I'm not quite sure that that thought will become widespread.

They are still quite a niche market, even if the industry is growing at a tremendous rate, and even in Japan, where gaming is extremely popular, it is not talked about in public. Gaming over there is quite a private thing .. so what are the chances of people who have never played games before considering them an artform? Fairly low.

Games of recent times, I feel, are indeed interactive art, where the basic stucture is layed out for you by the developers, and you shape it into the art through playing. Of course, earlier games didn't have this appeal or layout, so it is understandable why an artist may say 'no' to gaming being art when all they know of gaming is Pong.

But the prime focus for games is simply to have fun with, and in that process you are of course being entertained. So, on the whole, as much as gaming can be very creative and artistic, either in the way its played or designed, games are ultimately entertainment.

er-no: Gaming is both an art form and an entertainment form. However there are many games which aren't entertaining and in some ways lack all forms of artistic ideas. A simple way to prove this my opinion is that the film industry is considered an artform as well as an entertainment industry, its the largest industry in the world. Step one down and you have the games industry. Its the second largest industry in the world and has its own form of art. The same things are done for both mediums (storyboard, camera angles, concept art). The question should be. Now 'is gaming art or entertainment. It should be what is 'art'?

Conor: Sometimes one, sometimes both, sometimes neither.

Most of the time, games are entertainment. Like TV, films or books when you've been stressed all day at school and have spent hours making sure that new special is perfect, nothing takes away the stress like siting down with a great game. Obviously many games can be more punishment than entertainment, but when when you've got Metroid in your little purple cube the stress just melts away.

But art? Well, the thing is, art is subjetive. Most mainstream people think of painting a bowl of fruit when they think of art, but it is much more. In my opinion, art is any form of expression. Whether it's a pile of beans or a detailed painting, it can be art. The same is true with games, if developers have expressed a feeling in their games, then in my book it's art. Wind Waker, for example, is art. Because Miyamoto and his team have obviously put in part of themselves in it.

We may have some stinkers that qualify as neither, but thanks to some great developers, we get both.