The C-E staff give their views on gaming's most important issues.

Faced with the mixed reactions to EAD's latest games, Wind Waker and Double Dash, and the continuing praise for developers like Retro Studios and Intelligent Systems, you can get the impression sometimes that Kyoto's developers are being overtaken by their second-parties. Gems like Pikmin 2 and Animal Crossing discourage such an opinion, but the question is still an important one.

Are Nintendo's core studios being outclassed by their second-parties?

Jayseven:

In my opinion; yes.

Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime and F-Zero GX against Super Mario Sunshine, Mario Kart and Zelda. Actually, for some it's not so close, but in my opinion, Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime and F-Zero GX are not only great games for the GC but are among the best games I've ever played. Sure, many say MKDD, Zelda and SMS are among the elite crop of games, but I really don't think so. I completed SMS for the hell of it, and gave up on Zelda when I had to gather the broken Triforce pieces. By then I'd really had enough of the sailing. Mario Kart, now I just got that today so I've not really played it enough to say. As everyone thought when they first played it; controls are maybe a little loose...

I'm kind of going off on a tangent there, so I'll backtrack a little. So far I've found more enjoyment from what the 2nd parties have developed overall, that's not to say I didn't enjoy any 1st party efforts; 1080, for example, is great fun to play again and again, and has an excellent multiplayer. And nor am I saying that Ninty's efforts are awful -- they're still better than what most other developers ever pull off, and they perfectly satisfy many gamers, but I just think that nintendo have slipped slightly over the last year. Pikmin was a good solid game, but looking back it was really too short. The sequel due out this spring has a promised co-op mode, which will lengthen things, so for me Pikmin 2 should raise the bar a bit.

Iun:

Well... this is a tough one and no mistake...

I for one really enjoyed Mario Sunshine, it was nice and engaging, challenging and didn't get as old as Mario 64 as quickly, there still really isn't much of a better platform game on the system -no third or second party has been able to come close to it. Zelda, Mario Kart, Luigi's Mansion etcetera have all been very good games in their own right, just not really what you'd call outstanding. They're large established franchises that everyone thinks of when they think of Nintendo. They have to follow a mostly quite specific formula to try and please all the diehard fans and welcome in new ones. They manage to both alienate and illuminate.

On the other hand, most gamers would not consider Metroid or F-Zero a "Primary Franchise"; they aren't the really big draws that a New Mario or Zelda game is. As a result, the second party developers have had the chance to experiment and create a new formula to put together the foundations for an invigourated set of newer franchise games that will carry on to the next system. These revitalised ideas have gained critics, but they've gained far more fans than detractors.

Matthew:

I'm sorry, but this isn't a topic I feel strongly about, but I'll try to add my opinion into the mix, yes?

My 3 favourite games of this generation: Mario Sunshine, Wind Waker and Double Dash. Wario World? Eternal Darkness? Metroid Prime? I doubt I'd count any of them even in my top 10. They're all brilliant games, and the type you look back on in ten years time and go 'Yes, they were awesome', but they all miss that special something. They're all brilliant at what they've done - Wario World at being a fun, few hour, throw away blast, Eternal Darkness has the thrilling atmosphere and tense storyline and Metroid Prime has the brilliant engine and whatnot, but none of them really compelled me. None of them had me playing for more than 8 or 9 hours. None of them have me coming back, time after time, just to experience it again. I've not lost my weekend in any of them. They just... miss... something...

Nintendo.

Franklin:

Oh I would say the second parties are most certainly out-classing Nintendo. Looking at the top 2nd party games we've seen; Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime, F-Zero, Veiwtiful Joe, Resident Evil and Resident Evil 0. All go down on my list as great games and must owns. Then look at the "top" 1st party games that have come out. Mario Sunshine, The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, Mario Kart Double Dash. Three games that should be the cream of the crop, so to speak, but in my view felt rushed, underdeveloped and "lacking". Don't get me wrong, they are still very good games but could have been so much better and you know it. The only Nintendo developed games that I felt lived up to their hype and maybe even surpassed it were Super Smash Brothers Melee, Wave Race: Blue Storm and 1080: Avalanche. I can play any of these again today (and the 2nd party games mentioned above) and enjoy them as much as the first time I played them, but with Sunshine, Wind Waker and MK: DD I can't, in fact even the first time I played Wind Waker and MK: DD I felt dissapointed, and I really can't help but think that it should be the other way around. Shouldn't it?

Conor:

Upon first glance, the answer seems obvious. Faced with the relative disappointments of Nintendo's three core titles, you know what they are, it's hard not to be discouraged with the developer's current state of game quality. Then, on the other side, you've got Retro's Metroid Prime, the finest game on Gamecube, and Intelligent System's stainless record. However, it isn't quite so simple.

There is more to EAD's recent track record than just the main franchise games; their quality shines through in Pikmin and its sequel, Animal Crossing and the stellar Wario Ware and Made In Wario, not forgetting the short but oh-so-sweet Luigi's Mansion. These games are proof that the beating heart of originality and idiosyncracy is still pounding away in Nintendo's chest.

It's worth nothing that any catching up being done by second-parties is stronger with the Gamecube than with the GBA. On the GBA both parties have performed excellently, with EAD's Metroid Fusion and Superstar Saga being two of the handheld's best games, although the Advance Wars series is definitely up there with them. On Gamecube, it's probable that the flaws of Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker were more circumstantial than anything else. With their dominance of the handheld market, the company is under less pressure with the GBA. The Gamecube, however, is a different story.

Thus, overall both Nintendo's core developers and second-parties at about on par (not forgetting the influence Nintendo would've had on games like Metroid Prime). It has been recent circumstances which have shifted the view.

What do you think? Are Nintendo being outclassed?